Can you have your religion and be gay?

[D Bear]

Hi everyone, I was raised a catholic like a lot of people in this country. Now we all know that the church doesn't agree with homosexuality but is the part in the bible where this is mentioned blown out of proportion? Myself and my partner went back to mass last year for a long time and we got a lot out of it. But since the whole Ryan Report we were disillusioned with all the hypocrisy and horror and stopped going.

My partner struggles a lot with this, the whole gay/church issue. He trained to be a priest for 2 years but walked away because of all the hypocrisy and double standards in the church. Personally I would like to practice my faith again cause it's what I believe in. But there are a lot of hurdles to get through. I know a lot of what is in the bible is man made and politics and religion are all ways fused.

I found this ad on line about gay christians living in America and dealing with the issue
http://www.gaychristian.net/tme_landing.php?gcnmail/26221

So does anyone struggle with this issue that wants to have a spiritual life? Also is this the issue with other faiths?

I hope I don't come off as a holy joe, but just want to know what other people think.

Cheers.

[ringmewill]

Me an my bf dont do mass either, its well out of date but I dont have a prob with wot other ppl do, each to their own an all that.

Its like, ppl have opinions on gays too an I respect them, I mitn agree with them but thats why were all different

[LimkMike]

I was raised Catholic in Ireland but became wiccan about 25 years ago

i'm a solitary practitioner and Wicca has no problem with sexuality - its more a spirituality and only has one rule love and do harm to no one which basically means i can adopt other religions teachings into my own, its very individual, my experience of wicca will be different to everybody elses - we would all have common leanings and practices but the details would be different

my wicca includes teachings from catholicism, zen, buddhism, quantum philosophies, kabbalah etc

it suits me :) i don't preach, my family are ok with it (they have, on occasion asked me to do spells for them:))

[dykecrewleader]

I wasn't raised catholic, was always wiccan, but i do know of a gay preist who was part of the roman catholic church and has now joined forces with the reformed catholic church (origionally american) to start branches of that church up over here in Ireland.

He has paraded in Pride, has a whole bunch of Roman Catholic Priests doing relationship blessings for LGBT couples, worked with the Red Ribbon Project on a joint ceremony for World AIDS Day with the Church of Ireland Vicar in Limerick.

The church is an institution, every institution has it's downfalls. You can agree and disagree as you wish. The church is not the faith...anymore than a coven is a faith. Faith comes from within and if you are able to get something out of going to mass, if it doesn't make you feel like a lesser person and if your able to ignore what is not relevant to you i would say... go for it....

If your not able to do these things i would say... consider trying something else like solitary practice or changing churches for one that offers you something more reflective of your faith.

Not many people have the comfort of faith and if you do hold tight to it because it can be rare!

[fada]

Hiya D Bear.

I hear ya, I know where you're coming from. I am a Gay Christian, and a free thinking Catholic, IE, I don't think Church teaching is infallible, especially with regard to Homosexuality. Yes, there is one passage in the Bible which is used against Homosexuality, it is from the book of Leviticus, "Man shall not lie with man as he lies with woman". This, and the story of Sodom and Gomorrah are the two main reasons that the Catholic Church and most of the more conservative churches are against Homosexuality. I'm not going to go into a religous debate on this site, but I will tell you, that the message of the Bible, and the message of Christ, is "Love thy Lord thy God with all thy heart and all thy Soul, and love thy neighbour as thyself" There is nothing here excluding homosexuals. Leviticus wrote much, including that to wear clothes made from different fabrics is an abomination, and many other things. The above quote from him can have many different meanings, and would be possibly linked to monogmy..... The story of Sodom and Gomorrah is to do with inhospitibility to Angels and debauchery in the city's, rather than homosexuality (my own interpretation) There is very little to back up homophobia in the Christian Churches, and many are reforming and including LGBT people, Most recent example being the Anglican/Episcopalian Church, and of course the long standing MCC (Metropolitan Community Church)

I am glad you linked GCN (the Gay Christian Network) in here. I am a member of GCN, and am very active on there. It is an international group, an online Community of Gay Christians, and somewhere I have made many many dear friends. In Jan I travelled (thanks to Sheila at Rainbow Retreats) to LA for the Annual GCN Conference. It was the experience of a lifetime, and a life changing experience. Sitting in Worship with 300 other Gay Christians was awesome. I travelled alone from Shannon, and was welcomed at the door of the hotel by a group of GCNers whom I had only ever conversed with online, I was welcomed into their family with open arms, and shown love. I could never convey here the way in which we all bonded, and the changes the experiences brought to me, both personally and Spiritually.
Conference was the world premier of Through my eyes, and I was there watching it, sitting with some of the people who are in the documentary, some of whom are dear friends.
I would urge you to register on GCN and get involved, you will find alot of answers there. There are also frequent European gatherings, which are generally held in the UK, as well as various retreats and conferences in the US.
It's great to see the issue of our place in Christian life raised on here, Thank you.

And in Answer to your Question, Yes. You can have your Religion and be Gay. There's no reason not to believe that God Created you Gay, He's infallible, remember ;)

In Christ,
Breandán

EDIT: I attached two photos from Conference, One is the Catholic Forum outside St. Bonafice Church in Anaheim after attending Mass, and the other is a group photo of the "Transformers" the age group of which I'm a member ('82 to '86) in the lobby of the hotel in LA.

[D Bear]

Thanks for all your insight guys. Lots of great feed back.

I totally respect other religions as it means so much to people and faith gives us all strength. My friend is Wicca for years and she's a lovely person and probably one of my closest friends.

I really respect Christ's teachings and what they mean to us, to simply have respect for each other and to show love and compassion to others.
It's all about your relationship with God and as you said Breandon 'There's no reason not to believe that God Created you Gay, He's infallible,'. I had a long time accepting that.

I think the politics get in the way a lot and we need to see past all the rules and regulations and I can do that, thanks Dykecrewleader. Dogma all ways confuses issues and institutions are man made.

It's a shame that the institution is so corrupt and can't change with the world. But as you guys said there are changes happening everyday and that gives me hope.

P.S
I'll keep up to date with GCN,

Cheers. :)

[fada]

Best of luck on your Faith Journey D Bear. I'm only a PM away either here, or on GCN if you want to chat. Remember, Christianity isn't a Church, it's a way of life and a belief structure. God is present whenever people gather in His name. Whether in a Church, or at a dinnertable. That's what's awesome about Him! ;)

[fatandfortysomething]

I too was born and raised as a Catholic but have lost my way over the years.
I no longer consider myself a Catholic, rather a Christian.
My partner who lives in America is a practicing Catholic and is lucky enough to have a Gay Parish Priest. While I was on Holiday there recently I saw a DVD called "Because the Bible tells me so" which was very constructive about the Bible's teachings on homosexuality and the attitude of the church to gays.
Watching this movie helped restore my religeous self and it may help others who are doubting themselves spiritually.

Cheers

Fatandfortysomething

[fada]

Another good film is Prayers for Bobby. My friend and I watched it when it came out, and it was one hell of a tear-jerker.

I'm trying to get my hands on a copy of "Through my eyes" with a view to having a screening of it in Limerick.

Also GCN is 8 years old this week! So celebrations around!

It must be fantastic to have a Gay parish Priest Fatandfortysomething, That must mean an awful lot to your partner.

Welcome to the site by the way, glad to have you here.

[D Bear]

Thanks guys I'm gonna look out for those films.

[DaisyD]

I don't think religion has anything to do with being gay...and vice versa, AND if you're religion hampers your sexuality and vice versa, then I think you need to look at the source and reassess your religion....

[D Bear]

Ask A Gay Family Ep. 4 God & Religion

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[D Bear]

confessions of an homosexual monsignor
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[Erytheis]

I guess I was lucky as I wasn't raised with any religion, so my lack of faith when coming to terms with my sexuality was never an issue for me.
My partner became extremely religious for a period as a teenager, this is something I've noticed quite a lot with gay friends of mine, that as they were having their internal debates they turned towards God for guidence, but in the case of my partner, she found the religious group she was in were there only to comfort if she completely conformed to their doctern, so having come to terms with her sexuality and the take her church had on it, had to leave. It was an extremely hard time for her.

[IrishChristian]

There has been much discussion about being Gay and Christian yet few consider the Word of God on this needy subject. It does not matter what Roman Catholicism states or practices but like Luther our conscience is captive to the Holy Scriptures.The practice of celibacy is unnatural and
unbiblical and there is but one mediator between God and Man, Christ Jesus.
I write with a desire that each one of you should be saved and know Eternal life.

God made man 'male and female' Genesis 1 v 27 and appointed marriage between one man and one woman. It was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve ! Marriage is the only lawful relationship for the expression of sexual desire. 1 Corinthians 6 v 9-10 states 'Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God ? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of God'.

You may call such 'an alternative lifestyle', but this is meaningless. God in His word calls it Sin. You see, you and I are not the ones who decide what is right and wrong according to our tastes, but God, our Creator and Judge.
Seek the Lord while he maybe found. As long as you present 'Gay Pride' as justifiable there is no hope for you because 'If we say we have no sin, we make him[God] a liar, and his word is not in us' 1 John 1 v 10. Seek his mercy and forgiveness in Jesus Christ, the only One who can deliver you from the guilt of sin and break the power of that particular sin to which you are so much addicted. He is 'good, and ready to forgive' Psalm 86 v 5

God's Word not the Roman church is the real alternative. 'O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him' Psalm 34 v 8

[Evil Steve]

There has been much discussion about being Gay and Christian yet few consider the Word of God on this needy subject. It does not matter what Roman Catholicism states or practices but like Luther our conscience is captive to the Holy Scriptures.The practice of celibacy is unnatural and
unbiblical and there is but one mediator between God and Man, Christ Jesus.
I write with a desire that each one of you should be saved and know Eternal life.

God made man 'male and female' Genesis 1 v 27 and appointed marriage between one man and one woman. It was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve ! Marriage is the only lawful relationship for the expression of sexual desire. 1 Corinthians 6 v 9-10 states 'Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God ? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of God'.

You may call such 'an alternative lifestyle', but this is meaningless. God in His word calls it Sin. You see, you and I are not the ones who decide what is right and wrong according to our tastes, but God, our Creator and Judge.
Seek the Lord while he maybe found. As long as you present 'Gay Pride' as justifiable there is no hope for you because 'If we say we have no sin, we make him[God] a liar, and his word is not in us' 1 John 1 v 10. Seek his mercy and forgiveness in Jesus Christ, the only One who can deliver you from the guilt of sin and break the power of that particular sin to which you are so much addicted. He is 'good, and ready to forgive' Psalm 86 v 5

God's Word not the Roman church is the real alternative. 'O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him' Psalm 34 v 8


So you are saying NO then?

[fada]

The new commandment, as given by our Savior Jesus Christ is: "Love the Lord your God with all thy heart and all thy soul, and Love thy Neighbour as thyself"

Jesus Christ Preached a message of love and acceptance, not one of hate or Conditional love. He preached that God loves all his Children equally. He never said that God's love was conditional. To be Christian is to follow the teachings of Christ, to Spread the Good News of Jesus Christ, Which is we are LOVED! God Created us all in his image, and He is infallible. So he created his LGBT Children in his image also. You cannot argue that LGBT people are wrong, it is not a runner, because in saying so you are saying that the Lord made a mistake in his creation of (roughly) 10% of his Children.

Irish Christian, you came here and posted in this thread, a thread on homosexuality and Christianity, on a site for LGBT people, Quoting random scripture at us, not getting involved in the debate/discussion at hand. To be a Christian, sir, is to be a follower of Christ, to live in your day to day life according to His will, to show LOVE to EVERYONE. Coming on here, and attempting to tell people that they are not of God is *NOT* showing love to everyone. It is going against the very essence of being a Christian, causing hurt where hurt is not needed.
Please, If you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion, don't partake. You are welcome here, and you are welcome to argue, but making homophobic posts like the above is not.
Your attitude, my good sir, is exactly why many LGBT people turn away from God. You should be ministering to the marginalised and the hurt, not hurting further.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!

[Erytheis]

Here here breanoh,
I read a quote somewhere once that said "Will God judge me for loving or you for hating?"

[fada]

God will judge for Hating. But God will forgive.

If there were less homophobic Christians around, and more True Christians, the world would be such a better place!

[Evil Steve]

God will judge for Hating. But God will forgive.

If there were less homophobic Christians around, and more True Christians, the world would be such a better place!


TOTALLY agree

[dykecrewleader]

You see, you and I are not the ones who decide what is right and wrong according to our tastes, but God, our Creator and Judge.

I don't belevie that anyone has the right to decide for someone else what their relationship to themselves or GOD is!! The minute someone starts talking YOU and I with me then your out on your ear!

It's YOU and GOD matey...nothing to do with me....and to talk like that makes you a pusher. :)

[D Bear]

Hey IrishChristian (what a contradiction) I bet you and Fred Phelps are right buddies.

I believe in Jesus' teaching about loving one another, and to respect our fellow man. To my knowledge the world hasn't changed one bit since he was crucified. The Catholic Church are behaving like the Jewish rabbies (sorry to sound anti-semantic) that hated Christ and wanted him destroyed for challenging them and showing them that to be close to god is not to gain power and have status. but to forgive others and to love your fellow man no matter what he does. Because everyones relationship with God is theirs and theirs alone (well said dykecrewleader).

We are all sinners, everyone is a sinner buddy and God created us all different. If Christ came back, he'd feel sorry for people like you.

[irishbeliever]

I agree with IrishChristian.
Jesus said "If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15)

"..them that honor me I will honor, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed." (1 Samuel 2:30)

breanoh, you said (about Jesus)

"..He preached that God loves all his Children equally."
He did not preach this.

(if by "his Children" you mean everybody in the world, why was Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed?)

[madonnalucia]

this is spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaam trolling. ignore these people!

[Merack]

I agree with IrishChristian.
Jesus said "If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15)

"..them that honor me I will honor, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed." (1 Samuel 2:30)

breanoh, you said (about Jesus)

"..He preached that God loves all his Children equally."
He did not preach this.

(if by "his Children" you mean everybody in the world, why was Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed?)

Yeah well Merack said (Merack 02:02am)

FUCK OFF!

D'end!

[fada]

Irish Christian/Irishbeliever (same Person I'm sure)
Don't worry Madge, we all know it's a spammer/troll/closet case!


I am a citizen of the Kingdom (eph 3:19)

I am Chosen by the Son of God (John 15:16)

I am living with no condemnation (Romans 8:1-2)

I cannot be separated from Christ Jesus' love (Romans 8:35)

I am adopted as God's child (Ephesians 1:5)

God does love everyone.

And if you want to register numerous accounts go ahead, you can't convince me that I'm not loved by God.

If you're going to preach the word of God, preach of his love, not a false, Phelps-like "testament" of hatred.
Next thing you'll be advertising exodus or some nutjob organisation like that!
May God have mercy on you,

[LeeLum]

Actually, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because pride, fulness of bread, abundance of idleness, not helping the poor and needy. On top of all that, they were haughty and committed abomination before God! (Ezekiel 16:48-50).

Of course you can be gay and Christian! I really don't see an issue. The only issues arise when people read the Bible but fail to understand it. The same Christians who twist Old Testament verses to hurt people fail to abide by them themselves, for example, many Christian Preachers are rich and commit usury, they also wear two types of fabrics together....Ooooo!

Christianity is a religion of progression, the message never changes! The message, is Love, obidence and steadfastness of faith.

[Merack]

The thread is entitled can you have YOUR religion and be GAY?

YOUR religion is your pact in life with the God you believe in!

So if you are happy to be gay and live a lifestyle of a religion of your choosing then yes, you can have your religion an be gay.

Now, enough of this prophetic bullshit and make believe stuff!

Just be happy that you are who you are!

[D Bear]

The thread is entitled can you have YOUR religion and be GAY?

YOUR religion is your pact in life with the God you believe in!

So if you are happy to be gay and live a lifestyle of a religion of your choosing then yes, you can have your religion an be gay.

Now, enough of this prophetic bullshit and make believe stuff!

Just be happy that you are who you are!

Here Here!

Well said Merack. I've gotten a lot of great feedback from most people here.

peace out guys and feck the begrudgers.

[marlbo]

My concept of religon is tolerence of one another and love of each and every person on this earth , And having the ability to except individuals for who they are, been able to look into their souls and see the good in them .

Love is patient,love is kind, It is not jealous,
love is not pompous, It is not inflated, It is not rude,
It does not seek it's own interests,It is not quick tempered,
It does not brood over injury,It does not rejoice over wrongdoing
but rejoices with the truth.
It bears all things,hopes all things,endures all things.
Love never fails.

When you are with your partner,tell them how much you love them .
It will make god smile.:)

[dibble2008]

We need to stop this desire to convert people to OUR vision of God and just Be who we are without Judging others. The danger in using quotations and Gospel Chapters and verses to TELL others or INSTRUCT them is this. Automatically we project this message onto others outside of ourselves. It is they who are wrong. It is "them", they are the sinners. You see the problem here?

Instead of listening to the message of such verses we see it as something that others must do as if we are off the hook as it were.

What presumption???

To think that others need saving and it is up to you to tell them is indeed self delusion. You know the Pharisees believed this too and it went very hard with them from Jesus. He had no problem with ordinary sinners who admitted their wrongs and accepted their failings. In fact he enjoyed their company because he was loving and merciful and could see it was their human weakness that caused then to sin.

Until we accept this truth. That "I" am the same as everyone else, as confused and broken and mixed up and that we are no better or no worse than any other person. It is not our mission to "save" others by pointing out their failings. We need first to become aware of our own shortcomings and work on our own predjudices and look at where this desire is coming from to "change" others. It is only necessary to observe these things in ourselves and let the world take care of itself. You, me, all of us will be asked to make an account of our own lives. Not anyone elses.

The kingdom of God is within you. Just drop the baggage and there it is. It is enough to work on yourself and not be concerned with anyone else then all things will fall into place.

[dibble2008]

This post may help religious people.
Those who see gay people as sinners and in need of salvation.
It may help those who need to convert gay people.
It may help those who are outraged by the impurity and abominations that gay people take part in.
It may help those who see all the evil in the world and want to fix it and fix the sinners by telling them about god.
God wants all you people to convert your own hearts first and to start you off on this road I will now hand you over to Anthony De Mello. If you religious people have not heard of him then something is wrong. He is and was one of the greatest spiritual commentators this world has seen so my little piece of advice for you is to listen to his stories on this link and listen to him. He will set your mind at rest. You don't need to save gay men or women don't worry about it. Concentrate on saving yourself.
LOse your illusions and the world will be right.

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[dibble2008]

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For those religious people who want to convert Gay people and see them as sinners to be changed by them. Listen to this link.

[dibble2008]

In this link lies the truth behind any religious movement or individual who fanatically feel the need to change people they see as sinners.
This is absolutely the truth of being a christian. I urge everyone on this site to listen to this link especially those who may be hurt or confused by over zealous "religious" members who preach using the gospel or the bible as proof to back up their arguments.

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